Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Maj.Gen.NeckBBreaker » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:13 pm

Gen.NeckBBreaker, Germany

In Germany, dealing with Marijuana is also forbidden, though there is a minimum of a few grams I think that you can keep as a consumer, but I'm not sure with that. I'll be honest, I'm 24 years old and didn't try weed till now. Once a few friends of mine had their rounds right outside on a Drum and Bass party and after taking some breaths I did not feel any different so I did not start, though I'm, pretty curious about it. Well, I think Mariujana could also be legalized. My main thoughts wouldn't be the medical aspects but rather to get rid of the bad quality on the streets and the criminal organizations making money with it. I know, that some terrorist organizations like the PKK in Turkey get supported by just selling weed for incredible high amounts. In addition, I'm sure that legalizing weed would rather kind of take the massive abuse of Marijuana in control that spreading it to the children because once it is legalized, the ingredients and the THC amount can be cotrolled. Countries like the Netherlands are a good example for a country having weed legalized. Nobody get's crazy over there, though the Netherlands introduced a new law that only citizens of the own country can buy and smoke weed in their coffeeshops because of the massive drug tourism that was caused. Many of my friends here in Germany suffered by that because now they couldn't just go the the neighbour and get high.

Now I also remembered 2 nice movies on that.
The one is a documentation about weed, I guess some of you know "Supersize Me" which was about a guy eating everyday 3 times a day in McDonalds to see the effects of fast food on himself. Everytime when he was asked, if he wanted to take the "Supersize", he had to approve it. Another version of that docu is the one dealing with weed, "Superhigh Me". Just watch it and make your own thoughts about that...

The second movie is a piece of art dealing with legalizing weed just for medical reasons. Just check out your southpark website and watch season 14-4 THC versus KFC. It's just hilarious how they deal with that topic, worth to check it out ;) All clips can be watched for free on the official southpark webiste so just go to "Southpark" and have some fun ;)
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby frigileFrieda » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:34 am

Germany:

i wouldn't bother if they allow any consumption of drugs, but they shouldn't allow dealing or selling it. Its about the criminalization of drug-addicted people, i think they need help with their problem and it would be a big step to help them if they wouldn't been criminalized by the society and the law.

Otherwise the education on drugs and their consequences is very bad in germany and even on alcohol there's no education at all (at my experience). The most young people get in contact with drugs by not knowing the consequences. :(


But they're not the only people taking drugs (the young ones), politicians do it to, so i think they would be ashamed if they make any laws in that way...
and yeah, they found traces of cocaine in our parliament (i think in the toilet?), so thats pretty alarming.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Maj.Gen.patjeffe » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:17 pm

Ottawa, Canada

In Canada possession and distribution is illegal but some cities have municipal bylaws that decriminalize small amounts. Sometimes officers are are lenient and drive the kid home and talk to the parents. Our conservative government just released new laws for mandatory sentencing for pot which a majority of Canadians oppose (http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/marijuana/)

I am also on the side that decriminalization is the way to go. Making it illegal supports the two big gangs on the block:
1) Organized Crime
2) The prison industry
The funniest part is the two gangs support each other in a vicious circle of waste. I feel bad for US citizens who`s government has wasted billions of dollars in a vane attempt to make their buddies rich at the expense of millions of youth, domestic and abroad. They say that the taliban and al-Qaeda made a lot of their money off drugs and they use it to attack the US - implying that users were funding terrorism, the ultimate guilt trip. However, If you think about it, that wouldn`t be possible without american drug laws and a healthy american appetite for consumption - kinda scary relationship lol.

Personaly, I do not think marijuana is good for people by any means. Just like liquor it can be abused and people are better off without it in their lives. It can be addictive similar to unproductive pastimes tv or like dod:s ;) That being said its not the end of the world if somebody smokes it, there are simply healthier ways to relax.

In relative terms I think fast food is much worse for people than marijuana, one has really to only looks at the outcomes to get a clear impression of what is healthy and what isn`t. Focus on that if you want to same your country, pot is nothing in comparison.


ps Another decent but slightly biased doc is ``Grass``, on netflix. a good watch for an objective person.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col.Brandon_ha » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:21 pm

The union - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jO_ncXj7RE

Legalize it, make it legal to grow and sell it through dispensaries. Each dispensary would directly employ 20 - 40 people and indirectly employ hundreds of growers and do lots of business with a testing lab to verify every batch they buy. All these people and businesses would pay taxes and there would even be a new career path for electricians, certifying grow ops as safely wired.

Everyone would benefit, they'd be no more obtrusive in Ontario than the current system of lcbo's (provincial liquor stores), and it would essentially shut down marijuana dealers over night.


Just a note neck, Amsterdam has decided that they're not blocking no residents. The money is worth too much, and as soon as they started talking about it there was a massive explosion in drug dealers again.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col. Communicator » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:26 pm

I have a mixed opinion on this. First of all, I believe that pot is a "stepping stone" drug. It leads to other drugs ie; coke, heroin, meth, etc...As for its effect on people in general I don't think it is as bad as alcohol, however it does have an effect. It can and does reflect reflex(reaction) time and that could cause issues during driving, working, etc... So laws have to be changed regarding that. Then there is the growing issue. If its legal, you will have just uncontrollable growing operations throughout. Why buy it when you can grow it yourself and eliminate the middle man. It's not the same as alcohol. I don't believe there is any way to tell the difference in pot grown from 2 different growers. So the "control", taxing, and dispensing issues would always be there. Why pay tax on it when you can just grow it yourself and use what you grow. I think our taxes would have to go up to expand regulation on it. Just a few thoughts.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col. Communicator » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:34 pm

oh yea, KittyAmazing. I'm not judging but what does that say about your life if, as you say "Though i abuse the system and not only smoke it before bed, but usually throughout the day because i find that everything is 10x better. music sounds better, food tastes better, your quality of sleep is better." What happens when the pot isn't enough to enhance your life anymore? Will you "step up" to the next level?
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col.Brandon_ha » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:27 pm

Comm, thats a fallacious argument. The stepping stone effect has been dis-proven so many times, it' was more of a relic than Nancy Reagan was when she said it in the 70's, considering by then it was already 50 years old and disproved. The only reasoning behind the gateway effect is that it's illegal, putting the person in contact with those illegal markets.

As for "stepping up" - it just doesn't happen. Weed smokers don't go from weed to coke "because they need a better high", they are completely different drugs and it shows that you are arguing from a position of ignorance. Want to know a drug that has an actual proven gateway effect? Try alcohol, the "high" associated with alcohol is much more inline with other narcotics and does produce a stepping stone effect, most people try hard drugs like coke, meth, heroin, pcp, ecstasy, mdma, or any number of prescription based pills while already drunk.

Also stoned driving has been linked with a decrease in fatal accidents Additional studies can be found here
As for taxes, of course individuals could grow their own, you can grow your own tobacco and make your own beer too; whats your point? Are you suggesting that taxation would lead to a black market, like the current market of moonshine?

Let me refute that then; The moonshine market has steadily dried up to the point of near obscurity now, the only regions in which moonshiners exist now are in dry counties where the residents can't legally buy alcoholic beverages. The legality and proximity of a dedicated store where someone can go and buy their product of choice provides a level of safety and convenience that trumped the cost saving of getting an illegal product from the black market. As this happened with moonshine, so to will it happen to weed; why do you think the dealers where the ones who put all the money in fighting legalization in California 2 years ago? It would have destroyed their black market monopoly.

In summary; all arguments against legalization of marijuana are predicated on the fiscal and social costs associated with the black market trade of marijuana, and not the product itself. Legalization would save 8 billion a year on prosecution of weed, no matter how much it costs to develop a reasonable standard of impaired driving tests; it is not a reason to argue against legalization as it's already so prevalent and is already illegal to drive stoned.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col. Communicator » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:44 pm

LOL...A decrease in fatal accidents? How was that proven? Yes it is illegal to drive stoned but very hard to prove. Not every police dept has a DRE( Drug Recognition Expert) on their department and that is the only person trained to recognize drug related driving. If pot doesn't affect your driving then why are car stops performed and arrests made on pot related driving incidents? How or why did the officer believe that the driver was under the influence of anything unless that persons driving was reckless or affected by something?
Alcohol isn't a stepping stone drug. It may lead to a higher tolerance level where a alcoholic needs more and more to feel its effects. It doesn't lead them to coke, meth, etc... beer drinkers are beer drinkers, hard liquor drinkers stick to hard liquor and will even drink cooking extracts(vanilla extract, almond extract, bitters, etc...) because they are ALCOHOL based. You don't see alcoholics turning to drugs to enhance their high. If alcohol was a stepping stone to drugs, then you would have very few alcoholics in the world because at some point they would switch to drugs to continue that step.
As for moonshine, there was only a market during prohibition because it was the only alcohol available. Moonshine is horrible tasting stuff. Have you tried it? If it was good it would still be consumed and the demand would be there. No demand. NO market. Do you know the cost of making moonshine and home made beer? I've had both, they are both very bad tasting(some of the beer isn't horrible but definitely not preferred). Now if alcohol was illegal again you would see many more home breweries popping up everywhere out of demand. NOT because it was good. Now with pot, what does it actually cost to grow pot? It's like planting corn, throw it in the ground and you have a plant. (for the most part)It doesn't take many ingredients, cooking, bottling, carbonation, among others. Hell it doesn't take a lot of effort to grow pot. So you comparing moonshine to weed doesn't compute. Weed won't go away. And there won't be any way to regulate it like alcohol is. (Jeesh I can't believe I'm in favor of more regulations..LOLOL) Personally, I don't have a problem with pot. I smoked it when I was in high school in the 70's but not since. Would I smoke it now if it were legal? Maybe, probably, at most no more than I have a beer or two which is only a couple times a month.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col.Brandon_ha » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:54 pm

I gave you cited sources and studies, you came back with opinion; It's clear you're not here for an actual debate, but rather an argument.

Also denial doesn't make alcohol any less of a drug, or any less of a gateway drug, fact's are facts.
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Re: Political Discussions:Legalization of Marijuana?

Postby Col. Communicator » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:55 am

You didn't give me cited sources. You gave me the opinion of a website entirely dedicated to legalizing marijuanna. How biased is this site? Because you agree with it, and its on a website you believe it is a valid source. I did give you my opinion. I could find multiple websites that would support my arguments as well. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/Stepping-Stone-Theory.html Oh yea, a debate is an argument. Just saying.
Here's another accredited online source.

"The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) reported on a study of 311 young adult twin pairs conducted by Michael T. Lynskey, PhD, in its Jan. 22, 2003 issue:

Individuals who used cannabis by age 17 years had odds of other drug use, alcohol dependence, and drug abuse/dependence that were 2.1 to 5.2 times higher than those of their co-twin, who did not use cannabis before age 17 years....

In particular, early access to and use of cannabis may reduce perceived barriers against the use of other illegal drugs and provide access to these drugs."

Jan. 22, 2003 - Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)
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